Those eye-popping 6.5% to 29% NHS pay rises are a lie – and I can prove it

The first rule of navigating the used car lot is that if the deal you’re being offered sounds too good to be true, well – those shiny-looking wheels will be a banger in disguise.

And, just as with used car salesmen, so it is, I’m afraid, with government pay deals.

You could hardly have missed this week’s eye-popping accounts of unprecedented Department of Health largesse towards hardworking NHS staff. Jeremy Hunt, the Secretary of State for Health, tweeted enthusiastically of a deal, bashed out with no less than 13 trade unions, in which 1.3 million staff would receive a guaranteed pay rise, over the next 3 years, of between 6.5% and 29%:

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The headlines generated by a credulous media must have been a PR man’s dream. Here’s the Metro’s front-page splash, for example:

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But the claimed pay rises are inaccurate. Beneath those used car lot headlines is a sober reality, in which no-one will actually receive a genuine 29% raise and – far worse – thousands of NHS staff will not even receive the promised minimum 6.5% pay increase. At worst, some staff will receive annual rises of barely a whisker more than the current 1% austerity rises imposed annually since 2011.

Sceptical? I was too, initially. After all, how could the mainstream media not have interrogated these figures themselves before obediently reproducing them?

Well, the proof lies in two easily-sourced official documents which, together, reveal how the government has artificially inflated the alleged pay rises by including annual, incremental pay awards that staff would have already received (on their existing payscales) in recognition of skill and experience accrued over time.

These two source documents are:

(1) the new “Framework Agreement for the proposed reform of NHS pay,” helpfully posted in the public domain by Health Service Journal journalist, Shaun Lintern

(2) the current (old) 2017-18 NHS England Agenda for Change payscales 

Pages 11-13 of the Framework Agreement purport to demonstrate, for each level of seniority of NHS staff, their “new” pay rise over 3 years. To expose the statistical sleights of hand deployed, take the example of staff on “point 24” of the payscale, screenshot below:

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The total pay rise for a staff member on this point of the payscale would be, allegedly, 14.02% over 3 years. However, during that same 3 year period, their pay would have risen anyway on the old payscale by 10.48% (from £29,626 to £32,731), as they received their annual incremental pay awards, reaching point “27” on the old payscale. In other words, their actual pay rise on the proposed new pay deal is a mere 3.54%, spread over 3 years.

That’s not even close to the promised minimum pay rise of 6.5%.

It’s barely greater than 1% per annum.

Deploying the same simple arithmetic with the outlandish-sounding upper limit pay rises reveals, again, the dishonesty of the government’s figures. Let’s look at that alleged 29% pay rise. Here are those lucky individuals, on point “26” of the payscale:

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But, once you deduct the increase in salary these staff members would have received anyway on the old payscale (from £31,696 to £35,577 = 12.24%), you find the headline figure of 29% shrinks down to an actual pay rise of 16.8%.

In short, the government – and the 13 unions who have agreed to sign up to these bogus figures, with the notable exception of the GMB – have misled NHS staff into thinking their pay rises over the next 3 years are vastly greater than they actually will be.

Yet again (remember, they have form on this), the government is playing smoke and mirrors with NHS staff, the media and the wider public.

Quite why the BBC, Channel 4, ITV, Sky, the Times, the Guardian, the Telegraph, the Mail and the rest of the mainstream media have not interrogated these figures for themselves is a mystery. It depresses me beyond belief that not one of them has bothered to do so.

But the bottom line is this.

Mr Hunt, Mrs May, can you not see that you have in NHS staff a 1.5 million-strong workforce of loyal, idealistic, tireless individuals upon whose goodwill the NHS survives?

I am not willing to stand by and allow the men and women with whom I work – the NHS health care assistants, nurses, paramedics, dieticians, administrators, technicians, lab staff, radiographers, physiotherapists, speech and language therapists, midwives, occupational therapists and every other invaluable member of the team – to be tricked and misled by duplicitous statistics.

So please, Prime Minister, Secretary of State, could you not, just once – with NHS morale so low and thus the stakes so high – be honest and straightforward with your statistics?

137 thoughts

  1. Words fail me. I really do fear for the future. Not for myself, I am of an age where it won’t affect me too much, but younger people and future generations. We’re sleepwalking into a totalitarian society where only the ‘Rich’ will have access to resources.

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  2. Hi doc,

    As I understand it, provided the requisite skills are gained, staff move a spine point every year, and with it, their pay increases. If the pay per spine point is increasing, and someone moves from say 24 to 27, then they will get an 8k increase – more than they would have gotten before the rise. Am I missing something?

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    1. What I’m objecting to is the spin. Instead of being up front and honest about the actual proposed rises, the government is inflating them by conveniently ignoring the rises staff would have received anyway, on their old old payscales. That’s just not honest, it’s completely misleading and symptomatic of a depressingly common approach by the government to facts and statistics.

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      1. What do you expect from the Torys they are lying cheats they don’t know how to speak the truth, lies lies upon lies

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      2. Nonsense. You’re ignoring the fact that someone moving from point 24 to point 27 also moves across the chart horizontally from fy17 to fy20.

        The actual pay increase for someone in 2017 on point 24 ending in 2020 on point 27 is therefore 27%.

        It also highlights the fact why NHS staff have been moaning for years about a 1% pay increase when it looks like you go from Band 2 band and actually receive much more.

        You can’t moan about government skewing the facts when you ask you in them yourselves for your own good.

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      3. Thanks for supporting your NHS colleagues.
        This ‘pay rise’ which is still way below inflation is I feel unlikely to tackle the problem of recruitment and retention but let’s see.

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      4. Which Nurses received those horrible Tory cuts. Although your annual increase was 1% you’ve not said anything about the annual increments as the majority of workers receive less than £27000 in my case £13000 I think the status quo is ok.

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      5. Hi Heron and Chris
        325,300 NHS staff on the top of their band 1-7 will get 3% pay rise, which is well below the Govt and Media hyped 6.5% and in effect a pay cut due to inflation predicted at 9.5% over three years. We’ve already had a 15% pay reduction since 2010 due to pay freeze and pay freeze.

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    2. No because in the small print in the new proposed pay structure there is no guarantee that you will move up a spine each year or at all. The new structure unlike the current one in place now will be based upon annual performance, professional progression and sickness record. So some people could stay right at the bottom of their spine point, as to move through the new banded system will have to be agreed upon by your individual trust and management, so not automatic or guaranteed at all.

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      1. This is not new, incremental progression has been related to performance in my NHS Trust for the last 3 years. It’s not automatic, it’s related to your annual appraisal rating. I believe It’s the same in many NHS Trusts. What is more worrying is the compression of the pay structure, with incremental points shrinking from 9 in Band 7 for example, to 3 under the new proposal.This means that someone on paypoint 26 will get no incremental rise after year 5 anyway.

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    3. You can only progress to the top of your band. I have been sat at the top of band 3 for 10 years and unless a job becomes available as a band 4, I can go no further. You don’t automatically change band when you get to the top of your current banding meaning if you are on point 24, the furthest you can go is point 25.

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    4. Exactly. Most NHS staff move to another pay point every year until they reach top of the relevant scale. So member of staff who is on point 24 £29,626 in 17/18 would be on point 27 £37,890 in 20/21

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      1. Dream on Marcela you can only get to certain points on the pay spine and then you have to move up to the next band, or level, which usually means waiting for dead men’s shoes, I.e an available job on that band, there is no automatic movement between bands.

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    5. my NHS trust has not paid me my increments for three years now. We were told we had to “ask for them” – which I took to be just a joke and laughed it off. I was also under the impression I was hired on top of band wage since I’ve been nursing for over 40 years. Turns out I was very wrong and after 10 years with this trust, am STILL not at top of band. Management are doing nothing to rectify this. It’s disgraceful that they rob their own employees. Nothing shocks me anymore with NHS management OR the Government. The peasants will continue to suffer.

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      1. Keep fighting you are a hero to me and my hubby We are very old and are very frightened of our future being looked after in the NHS and we see our son fight stress daily as a pharmacist in a hospital It is just awful for you and for us oldies and the over stretched staff

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    6. Nathan and Chris below, you are ignoring the fact that the starting point in each Band is a low starting or training salary. Almost all employers will have starters or trainees on a low salary and then increase the salary for further experience and qualifications. If employers don’t do that then all employees doing the same job would be on the same pay as the trainee starter regardless of how long they have worked! Are you suggesting that all employees should continue to be on their starting salary throughout their career only increasing with inflation no matter what their experience and qualifications?

      Most staff will be at the top of their Band and do not receive further increments (I’ve been at the top of mine for 13 years). Inflation over the next 3 years is currently predicted to be 9%; so for most staff this will continue to be a pay and pension cut. Also there are further changes – particularly affecting ambulance staff reducing unsocial hours payments and sickness payments (again reducing pension). Ambulance staff had already taken industrial action over sickness and unsocial hours payments a few years ago and the Government agreed not to pursue the proposal.

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    7. You can only move up a pay point until you get to the top of your pay band (except band 8, where i don’t think you move up the scale).
      So someone on point 24 (band 6) can’t go above point 29 whilst they remain in the same job.

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    8. Yes that’s what I thought. The pay rise is for people in the same pay bracket, and the per year rises that would have happened anyway, as the author put it, is people rising through these pay brackets.

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    9. Yes you are missing a very big point that very many of us are at the top of our band and DONT get these increments and havent had an incrememental increase for many years!! I am one of those and i wont be getting a increment for the rest of my career unless i want to move towards management and like many of us that is not an option!

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  3. Quite agree with your comments Rachel & great to see sources of the nfo quoted for others to check. False news by UK government & more worryingly a lack of query from th various media sources/news teams across UK. We must stop ‘sleepwalkung’ it’s very bad for the NHS.

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  4. Hard to argue with the maths. Perhaps the media are just too…uh…busy chasing really important stories like The Great Facebook Debacle. Well done, DoctorOxford. Nice bit of work…

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  5. I’m slightly confused. Are you saying that in the new system the person on point 24 will remain on that point instead of progressing to point 27 as before?

    If they still would progress then would the appropriate comparison be where they start vs where they finish after 3 years in both cases? (with progression in both cases?)

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    1. What I’m objecting to is the spin. Instead of being up front and honest about the actual proposed rises, the government is inflating them by conveniently ignoring the rises staff would have received anyway, on their old old payscales. That’s just not honest, it’s completely misleading and symptomatic of a depressingly common approach by the government to facts and statistics.

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      1. OK and I’m not defending or ignoring spin, yet your own analysis risks being seen as spin too if you imply they would not progress. Indeed, one could argue that the increase statistics are accurate, you just need to look at where they would be after 3 years and calculate the difference.

        Unless I am misreading your table, someone on point 21 would indeed have a 14%higher salary after 3 years – when they reach point 24. The increase of someone on point 24 would be 15.76% after 3 years when they reach point 27.

        Unless I’m misreading your table?

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    2. No its saying there will be new point scales brought out. They have not factored in the yearly increments in the old scale when they have calculated the “pay rise %” on the new system. Given then fact those on the top of their pay scale have suffered a real terms pay reduction for the last 7 years by just getting a1% pay rise (with inflation being around that any way) this is not really a pay rise at all. However…newly qualified nurses and new members of nhs staff will see the benefits of this. It’s just us who have worked for the NHS for years that, as usual, get bent over by the government again.

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  6. ‪Are they removing incremental pay progression? If not, surely the nurse in the example will go from current point (£29626) to 2020/21 point 27 (£37890) over three years. This is a rise of 27%‬. Not saying that I think it’s a good deal, just wondering about this specific example. Happy to be corrected if I’ve misunderstood the maths – it’s been a long week.

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      1. I’m not sure they are. In the example you choose you are assuming the nurse will stay on point 24 over that three years. That won’t be the case (thus the 27% in my example) and he/she will get more than the 14% you quote. I’m just not sure your logic is sound to back up your case.

        The fact that inflation won’t be accounted for is the bigger concern for me. The lower pay increases will be less than inflation and therefore still a real-terms cut (just less of a cut than present)

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      2. I don’t actually think that’s accurate. How else would you describe the increases in your table? Those percentage increases do indeed seem to be accurate calculations based on where you would end up.

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      3. Incremental pay hasn’t existed for me at the top of my pay band for many years! I’m at the top of band 6 and have been for at least 10 years. I need to move up to band 7 to start again at the bottom of a pay band and progress anually. But that means an admin job I’m just not interested in so I stay here getting more and more poor in comparison. Nice.

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    1. They would have the same incremental pay rise per year on the old pay scales though. Government stating the pay rise is much more than it actually is in real terms as take the difference between a staff member going from pay scale 24 to 27 on old scale compare it with new scale and it’s a misleading increase

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  7. Whoever added the 29% to the press release is clearly an idiot as it doesn’t suit either Government or Unions to exaggerate so much.

    Unions want people to vote for the best deal available, not lots of people saying where is my 29%.

    The Government usually wants credit for aren’t we nice we have given a big rise to nurses, but they have no intention of paying much more than 1%for the rest of the public sector so it’s not in their interest to exaggerate as you just piss off the rest of the public sector.

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  8. I’m band 1 earning £15600 going up to £17600 this year alone happy days for me, some of the Band 7 and 8 pay rises are a quarter of my Annual salary.. these are the greedy fat cats that have no experience of life on the wards that are killing the NHS less managers and more hands on workers that are decently paid are the only thing that will make our NHS great again

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    1. I am on band 7 and find your comments extremely offensive. I have worked many long and hard hours to get to where I am now, starting on a salary lower than yours. I and many others I know on the higher bands frequently put in extra hours that don’t get claimed for and often come into work on days off or out of hours to sort problems and keep the service running.

      Just because you don’t know what someone on band 7 or 8 does to earn their money it does not mean they don’t deserve their pay or a raise in line with the rest of the service.

      The problem is the NHS as a whole needs greater funding, extra ‘workers’ on the wards will do nothing if the infrastructure around them, including managers, is not there.

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    2. Mmm there speaks someone that has done their research. I’ve been in the NHS since 1981. I’m not a greedy fat cat with no experience of life on the wards. I’ve worked hard throughout my career as nurse & midwife, to improve my skills and knowledge. I’ve paid to study & gain further qualifications and am now on a band 8. I dont apologise for that. With my qualifications I can earn far more in the private sector. But I chose to continue in the NHS. My job is just as important as a band 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 in ensuring the smooth running of hospitals and getting the best and safest care delivered to patients. The proposed pay rise looks good on paper. However the small print is interesting. A new starter on band 8 will stay on that point for 5 years ie no increments. And as we can see from this post, it is certainly divisive. Given the headlines, the public will not understand if NHS staff decide not to accept these “massive” payrises and strike.
      Steve, if you are not happy with your salary might I suggest you advance up the grades by gaining further qualifications, like I did. Ok. It’s not always easy. But it’s the only way. Rather than whinging about your lot, do something about it.

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    3. Are they greedy fat cats? Or are they exceedingly skilled professionals that have worked hard getting 1st degrees then Masters? Are they the people that are steering the ship through rough waters?

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    4. I’m one of your Band 7 “fat cats” 25 years working as a nurse, STILL working hands on as a nurse but my skills and experience are not being recognised by this insult of a rise. I don’t know what your job is but I had to do 3 years training, get a Diploma then a Degree plus multiple other courses to enable me to progress this far, I did not just get given the Band, i worked very hard for it so please don’t insult me and my colleagues.

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  9. I began my student nurse training way , way back in October 1975.
    Over the recent years, I have at times felt demoralised by the slow, but stealth way in which the current government is trying to kill the NHS .
    In all the years I have been a practising nurse, dispite my frustration I would not have felt able to strike.
    I am now completely disillusioned by what is happening that I would walk out and strike if I believed it would mean we could save and keep our NHS.

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  10. you can make figures suit a particular purpose both for and against Jeremy Hunt has done one making figures look good and this article has done another trying to make the figures look inflated . The truth will lie somewhere in between being better for some and not quite as good for others . What amazes me is those at the top have no problem enhancing their own pay in real terms no dodgy dealing just plain and simple massive increase .

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  11. I fit into the 6.5% pay rise. I’m already at the top of my pay banding. I feel it’s always been a battle with pay and conditions over the last 30 years working in the NHS. Just can’t wait to get my pension and run, just feel sorry for the staff just starting their career.

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  12. The media described the 29% as being for the “lower-skilled staff such as porters and cleaners”; yet you use the example applying it to a payband of circa 35k??

    Now, i’m No Sherlock, but if you want to find where the smell of bullshit is coming from… I would check out how many “lower-skilled workers” are paid on NHS contracts compared to how many are paid minimum wage by agencies….

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  13. The media described the 29% as being for the “lower-skilled staff such as porters and cleaners”; yet you use the example applying it to a payband of circa 35k??

    Now, i’m No Sherlock, but if you want to find where the smell of bullshit is coming from… I would check out how many “lower-skilled workers” are paid on NHS contracts compared to how many are paid minimum wage by agencies….

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  14. More smoke and mirror BS from our overpaid self elected Tory scum.

    Band 1 Steve! Do you really think the band 7 and 8’s are greedy fat cats.. or am I missing something ? #ridiculous.

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  15. They also need to realign the pension contributions to new pay scales
    I have not changed pay bands for 10 years but 3 years ago my salary meant I had to contribute 12.5% rather than 9.2% I actually take home less than I did 6 years ago (appreciate it’s my pension pot but I have no choice)

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  16. Yes they were getting rises anyway but incremental rises never seemed to be acknowledged by those alleging a pay freeze, going to food banks. Only the food banks were reported by the media. In truth 50% of AFC staff receive a 3-4% incremental rise each year. So the headline 1% cap was closer on average to 3% for Agenda for Change staff. Now it is harder to hide those rises away.

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    1. But for staff at the top of a pay band, as was the case for many of the more experienced NHS staff, they didn’t get any incremental increase. Do we ignore them just because us newer staff are getting increments?

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  17. What your article doesn’t make clear is that the number of spine points on each band have reduced. This will have the effect of a more rapid progression up the pay scales for everyone and is actually more significant than the headline numbers quoted.

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  18. The staff at the top of the bands are the ones who lose out. These are the staff with the most experience but are stuck unless they try for a higher grade which is not always possible.
    Also as others have pointed out, you move up a point each year so your examples don’t make sense.

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  19. You are also conveniently forgetting the increments too. You are comparing a rise on the old scale with them, versus a rise on the new scale without them. For someone who objects to spin, you’re doing it a lot here.

    Using your own examples:
    A band 6 now on point 24 (£29,626) would rise to point 27 (£32,731) on the old system: ~10.5% rise
    On the new system, they would STILL rise to point 27 but now it’s £37,890: ~27.8% rise

    A band 7 now on point 26 (£31,629) would rise to point 29 (£35,577) on the old system: ~12% rise
    On the new system point 27 is £41,723. ~32% rise.

    Feel free to criticise the pay deal, but you need to be honest with what you’re comparing.

    You also fail to mention that they are reducing the number of increments per band so that staff get to the top of their band quicker. As someone who has worked as a band 2, and is now a band 4 I can assure that the jump between £15K a year and £19K is huge. It’s the difference between surviving and thriving.

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  20. Ambulance staff are having an even more interesting discussion as they are talking about changing our unsociable hours agreement.

    Now, I’m someone who believes in fairness and everyone being on the same deal, to a point.

    At the moment ambulance staff get unsociable paid on their maternity and sick pay. Bear in mind that rates of physical injuries are higher amongst ambulance staff than any other NHS staff group due to the fact that we work either solo, or in pairs the majority of the time. Have heavy bags and equipment to carry and often have to throw manual handling training out the window because of where patients need picking up from. Also consider that a nurse who is pregnant often stays at work until late in their pregnancy, if a member of frontline ambulance staff falls pregnant they are often advised to inform their trust as soon as they know and to come off of frontline duties because of the risks to them and their child. This can mean that a member of staff is off the road for almost 18 months – that’s a long time without unsociable pay.

    Existing ambulance staff who do not change roles will stay on our current arrangement (at least that’s what we’re being told) but any new starters or anyone who progresses to a higher clinical role will be forced across to the new agreement (that includes people who have already started down internal tech-to-para courses). For a small number of those staff who were already band 5 Advanced AMT’s they will stay on B5 upon qualifying as a paramedic, but be forced onto the new agreement and so actually be worse off straight away despite the significant increase in responsibility.

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  21. Experienced in their role , incremental rises cease at the top of band. Thereafter, is the real terms pay cut unless a suitable vacancy arises at the next band. I was at the top of my band when the recession hit. An experienced band 7 who worked through the ranks ( Band 1 Steve) often significantly out of pocket to ensure I maintained continuing professional development. This deal is absolutely a continuing pay cut for me. Do we really want experienced staff rushing to retirement at the earliest opportunity or seeking employment elsewhere? Ongoing demoralisation and financial hardship in a role that provides essential services to people in the most fragile periods of their life? Really???

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  22. So strike then. 100% walkout by all NHS staff and don’t come back until your demands are met. Sue the government for reckless endangerment of life and even outright murder through their ongoing destruction of the NHS. Pretty sure the European Court of Human Rights would take it it, that is why they exist.

    Actually DO something about this, or take your 1% pay rise and stop crying if human life is really so important to you.

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  23. Not being an NHS worker and with no understanding of what band and spine actually mean in this context…my assumption is that the spine point is a yearly increment that a person within a particular band would get Irrespective of skillset etc. Could someone explain what Band and Spine actually mean.

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    1. History is there were dozens of different pay systems in the NHS and in 2004, they were all merged into a single system (except for Doctors just because!).

      System has 9 pay bands 1-9, just to confuse it 8 has four sets of sub-bands a-d.
      The scales within the band are points which traditionally have seen automatic annual progression till you get to the top of the band. It’s the automatic bit the Treasury hates as the unions answer to remove incremental progression is the “rate for the job” is top of scale so it’s a saving to the employer till you get there. There have been 2 rounds of making it easier for managers to stop people progressing up the scale for poor performance but the ability to accelerate people up the scale to reward good performance has been abolished.

      The number of points on the scale in 2004 was always a pragmatic compromise unions accepted that some one newly appointed can be paid less till they are fully competent in the role, but they were looking at 2-3 years, not as it has turned out 8 or 9 year scales. This deal reduces the number of points on the scales dramatically so over time most staff will be being paid on the top of scale they are employed in. At present on average across the NHS it’s about 50%, I guess that will become closer to 75% in 3 years time.

      Band 1 is above minimum wage but not by much, over the 10 years there have been several years of zero or 1%, but with a little extra either in cash or by abolishing a point on the scale at the very bottom so the scale has only 2 points now. This deal will abolish it entirely. The other issue at this group of staff is most have been privatised, porters, cleaners etc.

      Band 5 is entry point for graduate Proffessions, so Nurses, Physio, Radiographer, Scientific Staff,

      Band 6 is mainly those same proffesionals but 5-10 years experience and extra training and qualifications you are hitting £30k here.

      Band 7-8 there are many fewer, Matrons running wards balance between immediate care and running a team of people who are delivering the care.

      Band 9 is tiny numbers across the whole service, a few hundred of the million in the NHS, some are world acknowledged scientific experts in Cancer care and Reaserch, very top of scale now hits £100k

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    2. Bands are like pay levels and different roles would get different bands.

      You can get eg. of these roles at:
      https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/working-health/working-nhs/nhs-pay-and-benefits/agenda-change-pay-rates

      Within a band there are spine points. these are intervals that employees move up yearly (generally starting at the bottom of a band upon getting a new job).

      When people say there is a NHS pay cap of 1% they are conveniently ignoring the increments (up a spine point each year). For some long serving (usually 7-9 years within a band) workers however – the cap is real – having reached the top of their band, they can only progress by seeking promotion to the next band, otherwise staying on the same pay (+1%) each year.

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  24. It’s a disgrace, Jeremy Hunt and the Tory government should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. We worked it out all by ourselves, so why all these accountants couldn’t is a mystery to me. Shame on you all

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  25. Please don’t shout me down as I am not writing this to antagonise or be nasty. I dislike all social media type slanging matches and so never really comment on anything online.

    I do not work for the NHS and do not understand the pay bands etc. My wife though does work for the NHS and earns very little in an admin type job.

    I have only every worked in the private sector.

    I have many friends that work in the NHS as both Doctors and Nurses. My Doctor friends are incredibly well paid and although I discuss from time to time various gripes with them what they are paid is actually very generous indeed. I have nurse friends who are highly experienced and in senior grades. They are also paid very well and acknowledge this also. They also have legitimate gripes about their jobs etc (staffing levels etc).

    They are all hardworking and care about the what they do and how they do it.

    They do though have fantastic working conditions – great holidays, pensions etc.

    My point is this.

    If you are not happy with your job then you have the choice to leave it. Go and do something else.

    I have a couple of friends who are strong socialist types (this article was posted on my FB account by one of them) who continually complain about pay etc and how anyone on the right side of politics it about putting down the workers etc. They always talk about “fat cats” earning vast sums of money in the private sector and how capitalism is destroying the NHS etc.

    They never compare what they earn against the 95% of people in the private sector working long hours with poor working conditions, no pensions and little job stability.

    If you are not happy with your lot then do something about it. Train to do something else, improve your skills, change careers. Whatever it is do something. Don’t just bleat and consider posting political propaganda (as this is) as dealing with the problem of why you are not satisfied with your situation.

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    1. Part of the reason some extra money has been found is significant numbers of people are just looking to move elsewhere. When you first get blunt austerity of zero in 2010 in the NHS, the private sector is also seeing zero or some industries temporary pay cuts to save jobs or simply unemployment. So why jump from frying pan to fire?

      2018 private sector is not the land of milk and honey but has been getting slightly above inflation on average for most of 2012-2018 while public sector has had 0-1%, there are a lot of jobs where the competition for recruitment to the NHS is the private sector, cleaners and cooks and porters, and unqualified support workers, and payroll, and HR, and IT teams and experts,and finance. The problem for the healthcare proffesionals Is the private sector is tiny, so they can not do the equivalent of moving from BMW to Ford to get more money, if they move NHS Oxford to NHS Cambridge they will get paid the same. Their choice is get out of healthcare altogether or go to US, Aus NZ etc and increasing numbers are.

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  26. It seems a lot of commentators Don’t realise this deal includes an end to yearly increments. Someone middle of band 6 for example will stay on point 24 for the three years of the deal. After this they MAY get an increment rise to the top of the band. This may be quicker than they would have, but they will have to wait three years to get there which doesn’t help them much more than the old 1% deal now. Band 24 find themselves no better than if they had the old increments and a 1 percent rise, so the figures are very misleading.

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  27. The annual increment has also been removed from the system, which means we will really be shafted after 2020 when the increment is only every 3-4 years and they decide to carry on with 1-2% payrises 😡

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  28. But surely the whole point is that the Torys want the NHS to disregarded so they can fill their pockets with those sweet private health care profits?

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  29. “Mr Hunt, Mrs May, can you not see that you have in NHS staff a 1.5 million-strong workforce of loyal, idealistic, tireless individuals upon whose goodwill the NHS survives?”

    But that’s just the point isn’t? May and Hunt actually WANT the NHS to fail!!
    As Noam Chomsky said – first you defund, then you claim it doesn’t work and it would be better if we privatised it!!
    Many people will die if that happens, I can’t survive without my heart meds I have congenital heart failure!!
    They will do anything to destroy the NHS – which is without doubt the best thing any government has done for its people.
    We had to fight to found it in 1948!
    Now we must fight to save it!!
    Time for the NHS unions to call on the trade union movement to make a stand on their behalf!
    Nye Bevan said “The NHS will survive as long as there are folk willing to fight for it”
    That time is now! The people of Britain need to send a powerful message to this government. Action, up to and even including a general strike is needed

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  30. I am devistated to admit that we no longer have a Government of the people only a Government that is totally corrupt to the extent that all they care about is how much they can make out of hardworking people of thi country.

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  31. I’m sorry, the only person guilty of a sleight of hand here is you. If a persons wage increases by 14% over three years then you can’t pretend it has only increased by 3.5% because of the deal it is replacing. The scenario you are describing is thus:

    “You are going to get a 5% wage increase”
    “ok”
    “Actually we’ve changed it, you’re now going to get an 8% wage increase”
    “you wot m8? A 3% wage increase!? that’s outrageous! you said I was getting 5% before”

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  32. as a NHS paramedic with other change that are being forced on us we will be seeing a reduction in pay not a rise and my fear is being as part of the NHS because we are a relatively small group we will be unable to put up a fight to stop these changes in our T&C

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  33. “The total pay rise for a staff member on this point of the payscale would be, allegedly, 14.02% over 3 years. However, during that same 3 year period, their pay would have risen anyway on the old payscale by 10.48% (from £29,626 to £32,731), as they received their annual incremental pay awards, reaching point “27” on the old payscale. In other words, their actual pay rise on the proposed new pay deal is a mere 3.54%, spread over 3 years.”

    Sorry, but to use a technical term, this is bollocks.

    Somebody who would have got a 10% pay rise who is now getting a 14% payrise is ***still getting a 14% payrise***. Not a 4% payrise.

    This is the same logical error often deployed by left-wing politicians who can’t seem to undetstand that a smaller increase than previously planned is still an increase, not a cut.

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  34. Having been at the top of my pay band for 13 years! I have given every ounce of good will and some. 32 years as a qualified nurse in the NHS has almost broken me.
    I’m sure our political leaders earn every penny of their pay increase and believe all the bullshit they attempt to feed us!

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  35. Having done these calculations as well, I agree, the reality of the 24% pay rise claimed is in fact 14% above what pay increase would have been anyway … also I’m concerned about this line on the RCN website info about the proposed pay deal :
    “Instead of being based on the old pay points, eligibility for the payment of unsocial hours during sick leave would apply to salaries up to £18,160” …. so does this mean nurses on permanent nights will only get basic pay if they are off sick?? And …. if this is supposed to help staff recruitment and retention … well I understand the dizzy pay increases claimed will help new staff at entry level of each pay band but what about those who are already at the top of their pay band? There are lots of experienced nurses out there with nowhere to go … not sure that will help retention.

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  36. Native American giving at it’s best. Take the increment away with one hand give it back with the other and stick a small percentage on top and publish a pack of lies.
    For those who don’t know the NHS incremental pay system, it comprises of a number of bands with six or seven pay points in each and was designed for medical staff at Agenda for Change giving progression as their experience increased. For non-medical staff it is a complete rip-off as the top pay point is normally the rate for the job, only it takes six or seven years to get there so a host of ancillary staff (porters, cleaners, catering & maintenance) are working for lower wages for that period. Recruitment in this area is now very challenging because of the pay caps imposed over he last eight years.

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  37. The reason why so many staff leave is because they go to work for agencies. These agencies HAVE increased their pay rates while the NHS have been frozen.
    So then the hospitals have to “hire” back the staff who left at inflated cost to include the agency’s cut, very often doing their old job in many hospitals.
    Give NHS staff a decent pay rise and people will return, reliance on agency working will lessen and we are all better off.
    Only problem is that so many of the current government have shares in the agencies and would lose dividends if they did the above.

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  38. I’m not here to post an opinion on the new contract but the maths displayed here are horribly inaccurate and misleading. You’re forgetting that as people move across your diagram (from 2018 until 2021) they will continue to more vertically too (and receive pay progression, although I appreciate not in all cases). When you factor this into account, they 10% pay rise you quoted for example 1 is actually a 17% pay rise (their pay 3 years later will be 41 723 vs 35 556). The same mis-calculation will apply for all examples given.
    As I said, not here to voice an opinion but everybody should be correctly informed before they vote.

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  39. The increments approach looks attractive. However, two things should be highlighted. Most staff with a few years seevice will be on the top level already; so to include the increment % is misleading, as they will only get the basic increase referenced in the article. Also, many trusts have gone through a regrading process; which in many cases meant down- grading; which reduced the value of the increments and the ceiling pay for the grade. Many nurses are now lost to the profession, or working in private hospitals….on better pay…oh and in my wife’s private hospital 80% of their operations are for the NHS. Work that out! She did 38 years in the NHS, but when her trust had to appeal to local charities to replace basic equipment she lost faith.

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  40. Hi there,
    I too support the argument that this is a joke of an offer. It may look like newly qualified nurses and midwives are benefiting the most, but worthwhile remembering that these restarts will be entering the profession with a mountain of student debt behind them…and the higher initial pay will put them in the realms of paying it back sooner than normal and higher pension contributions! Give with one hand, take away with many others. Not to mention that by the time we get to see this pension we could be in our 70’s. It really is time for action!

    Liked by 1 person

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